Conversations
The Work of Friction is a weekly podcast about what it actually takes to create change when systems resist it. And why the work of sustainability is often the work of friction.
Friction gets a bad rap. We’re told to reduce it, eliminate it, optimize it away. But in systems built to resist change, friction is where the real work happens—it signals that something matters, that stakes are high, and that transformation is possible but not guaranteed.
In 30-minute conversations, Dr. Sarah Haley Knowles sits down with sustainability leaders navigating complex institutions—where progress is slow, incentives are misaligned, and every decision involves tradeoffs. Together, they unpack the tensions, failures, and hard-won insights that don’t make it into press releases or keynotes.
Most sustainability conversations celebrate wins or diagnose problems from a distance. These go inside the machinery—into budget meetings, stakeholder negotiations, and the moments when someone must balance institutional constraints with a commitment to meaningful progress.
For listeners who read friction—who know the difference between resistance and obstructionism, when to push and when to regroup, and that creating change isn't about removing friction but about directing it.
Thoughtful, candid, and occasionally irreverent, The Work of Friction explores how meaningful sustainability progress happens—not in spite of resistance, but through it.
